Comments on: Italy and Japan: like two peas in a pod? http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/ Laurent Fintoni's online portfolio and blog... music, travels, life Fri, 02 Jul 2010 21:04:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: an italian http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/comment-page-1/#comment-5350 an italian Sun, 03 Jan 2010 11:23:41 +0000 http://www.lo-la.co.uk/?p=468#comment-5350 ... and I forgot a certain "soft spot" for food ;) … and I forgot a certain “soft spot” for food ;)

]]> By: an italian http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/comment-page-1/#comment-5349 an italian Sun, 03 Jan 2010 11:02:16 +0000 http://www.lo-la.co.uk/?p=468#comment-5349 I'm italian and I'm planning to travel to japan; months ago I had a similar epiphany; I did almost the exact same reasoning of yours and Kris'. We are not identical (of course historical aspects of culture, what exactly it means to be polite, the approach to job and how much we don't rely on institutions, etc.) , but there is an astonishing level of similarities; one could say that we are indeed different but roughly equivalent; a lot of concepts can be translated in similar ones. I second the *unflexible* hidden hierarchical organization; it's not apparent for various reasons (e.g. wrt to the japanese we don't have that many multiple levels of language styles to express respect) but there are a lot of very small nuances with which we speak or ... well you know about the italian gestuality and the tuning of the vowels)... if you get a grasp of them it's not possible to deny that there are a lot of social and hierarchical structures in our society. only it's not necessarily the "right", apparent one (e.g. we don't trust instututions and the institutions don't trust us). even the pacinko machines thing; it's absolutely not at the same level, but we have little gambling games to which we are addicted because we seek in it a "way out", a means of escaping; and little gambling machines are now increasing in bars at an astonishing speed. bids should be limited and not grant rich wins. should. but frequently there's a way out. and of course guess who's involved too.... I wonder if the people of japan would find these similiarities an insult... I’m italian and I’m planning to travel to japan; months ago I had a similar epiphany; I did almost the exact same reasoning of yours and Kris’. We are not identical (of course historical aspects of culture, what exactly it means to be polite, the approach to job and how much we don’t rely on institutions, etc.) , but there is an astonishing level of similarities; one could say that we are indeed different but roughly equivalent; a lot of concepts can be translated in similar ones.

I second the *unflexible* hidden hierarchical organization; it’s not apparent for various reasons (e.g. wrt to the japanese we don’t have that many multiple levels of language styles to express respect) but there are a lot of very small nuances with which we speak or … well you know about the italian gestuality and the tuning of the vowels)… if you get a grasp of them it’s not possible to deny that there are a lot of social and hierarchical structures in our society. only it’s not necessarily the “right”, apparent one (e.g. we don’t trust instututions and the institutions don’t trust us).

even the pacinko machines thing; it’s absolutely not at the same level, but we have little gambling games to which we are addicted because we seek in it a “way out”, a means of escaping; and little gambling machines are now increasing in bars at an astonishing speed. bids should be limited and not grant rich wins. should. but frequently there’s a way out. and of course guess who’s involved too….

I wonder if the people of japan would find these similiarities an insult…

]]> By: Rita Mantovani http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/comment-page-1/#comment-5128 Rita Mantovani Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:49:08 +0000 http://www.lo-la.co.uk/?p=468#comment-5128 Hey my son - I do agree with your outlook. Very perspicacious. Also enjoyed your exchange of mail with Kris who brought up two/three excellent parallels, namely the birthrate and the fact that women no longer want to be housewives. Am living in Italy, and the foregoing on housewives is clearly seen in the workplace of late. I have never lived in Japan but have documented myself and your findings are concrete. Looking forward to reading more … Hey my son – I do agree with your outlook. Very perspicacious. Also enjoyed your exchange of mail with Kris who brought up two/three excellent parallels, namely the birthrate and the fact that women no longer want to be housewives.

Am living in Italy, and the foregoing on housewives is clearly seen in the workplace of late. I have never lived in Japan but have documented myself and your findings are concrete.

Looking forward to reading more …

]]> By: Laurent http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/comment-page-1/#comment-4851 Laurent Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:18:41 +0000 http://www.lo-la.co.uk/?p=468#comment-4851 Oh so you made the move onto Korea? Damn I need to sit down with a cup of tea or two and catch up on what you've been up to. Never enough time to innanet everything. Yeah I'll let you know once I know more myself, hopefully we can meet up. Though this is also now the perfect excuse to stop via Korea, he he. Oh so you made the move onto Korea? Damn I need to sit down with a cup of tea or two and catch up on what you’ve been up to. Never enough time to innanet everything.
Yeah I’ll let you know once I know more myself, hopefully we can meet up. Though this is also now the perfect excuse to stop via Korea, he he.

]]> By: Alex Case http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/comment-page-1/#comment-4850 Alex Case Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:12:01 +0000 http://www.lo-la.co.uk/?p=468#comment-4850 Cheers Laurent Make sure you give me some notice when you're back out East, as I'm now based in Korea but still back in Japan all the time to see the in-laws etc Cheers Laurent

Make sure you give me some notice when you’re back out East, as I’m now based in Korea but still back in Japan all the time to see the in-laws etc

]]> By: Laurent http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/comment-page-1/#comment-4849 Laurent Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:45:26 +0000 http://www.lo-la.co.uk/?p=468#comment-4849 Hey Alex! Long time, hope you're well. Happy belated new year too :) Glad to hear you also agree on the similarities btw the countries, since i've mentioned it more and more stuff seems to crop up. The stuff you brought up I hadn't even thought about it either. The obsession with fashion is an obvious one too. Will have a look at the old post. The mysterious project shall be revealed very soon and Im hoping to be back in Japan for a bit towards the end of the year so hopefully we can actually meet this time, would be lovely to buy you a drink and a have a chinwag ;) Lo Hey Alex!
Long time, hope you’re well. Happy belated new year too :)

Glad to hear you also agree on the similarities btw the countries, since i’ve mentioned it more and more stuff seems to crop up. The stuff you brought up I hadn’t even thought about it either. The obsession with fashion is an obvious one too.

Will have a look at the old post.

The mysterious project shall be revealed very soon and Im hoping to be back in Japan for a bit towards the end of the year so hopefully we can actually meet this time, would be lovely to buy you a drink and a have a chinwag ;)

Lo

]]> By: Alex Case http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/comment-page-1/#comment-4848 Alex Case Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:00:36 +0000 http://www.lo-la.co.uk/?p=468#comment-4848 Hi Laurent, haven't visited in a while, glad you're going well and hope the mysterious new project takes off I lived in Italy for a year just before going to Japan for 5, and I absolutely agree that the similarities are striking. You've covered some I had never thought of that I'll add to my list. And there's more: bella figura = the Eastern concept of face obsession with fashion small cars very mixed industrial and residential areas Can't remember any more at the moment, but might be in my attempt at a blog post on the same thing a couple of years ago http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/teaching/teaching-abroad/europe/western-europe/italy/japan-italy/ Hi Laurent, haven’t visited in a while, glad you’re going well and hope the mysterious new project takes off

I lived in Italy for a year just before going to Japan for 5, and I absolutely agree that the similarities are striking. You’ve covered some I had never thought of that I’ll add to my list. And there’s more:

bella figura = the Eastern concept of face
obsession with fashion
small cars
very mixed industrial and residential areas

Can’t remember any more at the moment, but might be in my attempt at a blog post on the same thing a couple of years ago

http://www.tefl.net/alexcase/teaching/teaching-abroad/europe/western-europe/italy/japan-italy/

]]> By: liza http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/comment-page-1/#comment-4815 liza Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:32:41 +0000 http://www.lo-la.co.uk/?p=468#comment-4815 that picture is TOTALLY epcot center. FLORIDA, baby! i think america is between japan and italy... whoa, another creepy parallel!?!? thatza spicy meatball. that picture is TOTALLY epcot center. FLORIDA, baby! i think america is between japan and italy… whoa, another creepy parallel!?!? thatza spicy meatball.

]]> By: Kris http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/comment-page-1/#comment-4689 Kris Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:52:57 +0000 http://www.lo-la.co.uk/?p=468#comment-4689 4) Last but not least, they're both drowning in a black hole of govt debt. Both countries managed to successfully break new records for govt debt levels since 1990. Italy's debt peaked in the mid nineties at 124% of GDP and then dropped to about 110%, while Japan's debt has simply continued to rise through the financial stratosphere to it's current level of 180% of GDP ie both governments are already broke and the baby boomers haven't even retired yet. Later Lo. 4) Last but not least, they’re both drowning in a black hole of govt debt. Both countries managed to successfully break new records for govt debt levels since 1990. Italy’s debt peaked in the mid nineties at 124% of GDP and then dropped to about 110%, while Japan’s debt has simply continued to rise through the financial stratosphere to it’s current level of 180% of GDP ie both governments are already broke and the baby boomers haven’t even retired yet.

Later Lo.

]]> By: Kris http://www.lo-la.co.uk/2008/12/29/italy-and-japan-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/comment-page-1/#comment-4688 Kris Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:39:18 +0000 http://www.lo-la.co.uk/?p=468#comment-4688 ... the scary part is, the only reason that things don't look quite so tragic for Italy as they do for Japan is immigration, which is still pretty much no existent in Japan. It's a very new thing for Italy too though. In Italy, the 1991 census found 360 thousand foreigners, representing less than 0.6 percent of the population. According to the latest estimates, foreigners recorded in the population registers are about 2.7 million, adding up to 4.5% of total population plus another half million estimated illegals making about 5%. Half the locals still don't approve of immigration though (xenophobia), the corresponding number in Japan = about 0% … the scary part is, the only reason that things don’t look quite so tragic for Italy as they do for Japan is immigration, which is still pretty much no existent in Japan. It’s a very new thing for Italy too though. In Italy, the 1991 census found 360 thousand foreigners, representing less than 0.6 percent of the population. According to the latest estimates, foreigners recorded in the population registers are about 2.7 million, adding up to 4.5% of total population plus another half million estimated illegals making about 5%. Half the locals still don’t approve of immigration though (xenophobia), the corresponding number in Japan = about 0%

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